Season five has been quite interesting to revisit, to say the least, but in which direction will these last six episodes take it?
The One Where Pinkie Pie Knows
Written by Gillian M. Berrow
There's only two problems that this episode faces; the 22-minute timeframe doesn't do the episode much justice at all. To be fair, the episode as a whole is far more comedy driven than plot driven, kind of like how SpongeBob became successful. And this sort of branches off onto the other problem. Why was it stated that Shining Armor and Cadance were held up only to turn up a minute after it was said? A bit of false tension? Either way, it's pointless and just there to pad out the runtime.
Nitpicking aside, this is a really funny episode with a simple conflict that fit Pinkie really well. It's also ironic she'd go through the stress of trying to keep the secret away from Twilight, especially after what she told Twilight in Green Isn't Your Color. Not to mention how funny it is the way she reacts to anything relating to Shining Armor and Cadance having a baby.
Nitpicking aside, this is a really funny episode with a simple conflict that fit Pinkie really well. It's also ironic she'd go through the stress of trying to keep the secret away from Twilight, especially after what she told Twilight in Green Isn't Your Color. Not to mention how funny it is the way she reacts to anything relating to Shining Armor and Cadance having a baby.
Rating: Excellent (9/10)
Hearthbreakers
Written by Nick Confalone
Considering the hit-or-miss quality of the middle season thus far, I think it says a lot when an episode of (mostly) average quality turns up twenty in.
I like the idea of two families coming together over the holidays to learn about differing traditions from one another, but unfortunately, it suffers by having the exact same problems that Party Pooped did (ironically, also by Confalone). One tribe offends the other despite their good intentions, and both involve Pinkie Pie.
One difference, however, is that Pinkie's family are given somewhat distinct personalities as opposed to the yaks being interchangeable with each other. But even then, they kind of feel like afterthoughts; we can see Marble Pie is introverted and Limestone can be aggressive... but that's it. As for the parents? Erm... kind of religious?
In addition, the "get the exciting family to bond with the not-so-exciting family" has vague shades of Maud Pie (the episode, not the character), and we get a recap of Hearth's Warming Eve (again, the episode, not the holiday). The latter is kind of unnecessary, but then again, some first-time viewers watching this prior to the season two episode may not know why the holiday is celebrated, so I guess I can understand why it was included.
Apart from that though, the overall result is pretty boring for the most part. Inoffensive, but you'll likely forget about it after watching it. At least the plot is coherent and the Pie family doesn't border on over-the-top unlikable so... that's a nice thing to know?
I like the idea of two families coming together over the holidays to learn about differing traditions from one another, but unfortunately, it suffers by having the exact same problems that Party Pooped did (ironically, also by Confalone). One tribe offends the other despite their good intentions, and both involve Pinkie Pie.
One difference, however, is that Pinkie's family are given somewhat distinct personalities as opposed to the yaks being interchangeable with each other. But even then, they kind of feel like afterthoughts; we can see Marble Pie is introverted and Limestone can be aggressive... but that's it. As for the parents? Erm... kind of religious?
In addition, the "get the exciting family to bond with the not-so-exciting family" has vague shades of Maud Pie (the episode, not the character), and we get a recap of Hearth's Warming Eve (again, the episode, not the holiday). The latter is kind of unnecessary, but then again, some first-time viewers watching this prior to the season two episode may not know why the holiday is celebrated, so I guess I can understand why it was included.
Apart from that though, the overall result is pretty boring for the most part. Inoffensive, but you'll likely forget about it after watching it. At least the plot is coherent and the Pie family doesn't border on over-the-top unlikable so... that's a nice thing to know?
Rating: Okay (4/10)
What About Discord?
Written by Neal Dusedau
Well, well, well. We meet again. An episode that's so hated it practically sealed Neal Dusedau's fate as a writer for the show. But is it really that awful?
Let's start off with the fact that all of a sudden, the Mane Six (barring Twilight) are friends with Discord. Fluttershy and Pinkie Pie (sort of), I can understand, but why Rarity, Applejack and Rainbow Dash? Because last I checked, they're usually not on good terms with Discord.
The pacing in this episode is horrible. The story is so paper-thin that it's almost as if they forced in comedy and pop-culture references just to pad it out and make it interesting. Not only that, they keep repeating the jokes instead of explaining what the Mane Five and Discord did over the three days Twilight was re-organizing her books, constantly repeating "you just had to be there" to rub it in her face. And the audiences' collective face as well.
Further adding onto the padding is Zecora's role. You could cut it out and lose nothing in the process.
The message the episode wants to display is that "it's okay to be jealous". Fine, that's their intention, and if they stuck with that, this wouldn't be a problem... except Discord deliberately left Twilight out of her friends' weekend just to screw with her. "I messed with you just so you could learn something, but that's okay since we're friends."
Another problem with teaching the lesson is that the narrative is so convoluted that it never takes the time to decide who we're meant to root for. Should we root for Twilight given how much she's left out, or should we root for Discord because she has a history of mistrusting him? The episode goes... both directions and yet neither direction at the same time, making it more confused than it really is.
It doesn't help that the episode ended with Discord shrinking in size, as if he was getting his own taste of medicine for being a jerk to Twilight. If Twilight was the one we were rooting for from the get go, and that Discord was the one taking his behavior too far (kind of like Three's a Crowd, which did this way better), this would've been fine.
While not the worst episode the show has spewed, it's still really bad, but on the whole, it's pointless in the long run. You could skip over this episode and you'd lose nothing in the long run. I think it's safe to say that season five was not a good one for Discord, especially since seasons before and after this one did him better justice.
Let's start off with the fact that all of a sudden, the Mane Six (barring Twilight) are friends with Discord. Fluttershy and Pinkie Pie (sort of), I can understand, but why Rarity, Applejack and Rainbow Dash? Because last I checked, they're usually not on good terms with Discord.
The pacing in this episode is horrible. The story is so paper-thin that it's almost as if they forced in comedy and pop-culture references just to pad it out and make it interesting. Not only that, they keep repeating the jokes instead of explaining what the Mane Five and Discord did over the three days Twilight was re-organizing her books, constantly repeating "you just had to be there" to rub it in her face. And the audiences' collective face as well.
Further adding onto the padding is Zecora's role. You could cut it out and lose nothing in the process.
The message the episode wants to display is that "it's okay to be jealous". Fine, that's their intention, and if they stuck with that, this wouldn't be a problem... except Discord deliberately left Twilight out of her friends' weekend just to screw with her. "I messed with you just so you could learn something, but that's okay since we're friends."
Another problem with teaching the lesson is that the narrative is so convoluted that it never takes the time to decide who we're meant to root for. Should we root for Twilight given how much she's left out, or should we root for Discord because she has a history of mistrusting him? The episode goes... both directions and yet neither direction at the same time, making it more confused than it really is.
It doesn't help that the episode ended with Discord shrinking in size, as if he was getting his own taste of medicine for being a jerk to Twilight. If Twilight was the one we were rooting for from the get go, and that Discord was the one taking his behavior too far (kind of like Three's a Crowd, which did this way better), this would've been fine.
While not the worst episode the show has spewed, it's still really bad, but on the whole, it's pointless in the long run. You could skip over this episode and you'd lose nothing in the long run. I think it's safe to say that season five was not a good one for Discord, especially since seasons before and after this one did him better justice.
Rating: Bad (1/10)
The Hooffields and McColts
Written by Joanna Lewis and Kristine Songco
So Twilight and Fluttershy finally go on a Map Mission together. And... the outcome is pretty average on whole. The overall plot is very much akin to the family feud plot trope like Romeo and Juliet, minus the romance plotline, and... that's kind of it. There isn't really much to say.
Well, one thing I can say is that Fluttershy's characterization here was better than it was in Scare Master. She's concerned about the animals' safety and need, and even learns from them as to why the titular families were feuding for many years. It was all because their first ancestors couldn't agree and come to a compromise. Very good; it connects to the message about animal protection nicely.
But other than that, it's a bit on the run-of-the-mill side compared to most of Joanna and Kristine's scripts. At least it's better than Legend of Everfree.
Well, one thing I can say is that Fluttershy's characterization here was better than it was in Scare Master. She's concerned about the animals' safety and need, and even learns from them as to why the titular families were feuding for many years. It was all because their first ancestors couldn't agree and come to a compromise. Very good; it connects to the message about animal protection nicely.
But other than that, it's a bit on the run-of-the-mill side compared to most of Joanna and Kristine's scripts. At least it's better than Legend of Everfree.
Rating: Okay (6/10)
The Mane Attraction
Written by Amy Keating Rogers
So here it is; Amy Keating Rogers' swan song for My Little Pony. Having recently rewatched all of her episodes, I feel that some have aged worse than others, the worst offenders being A Friend in Deed and Crusaders of the Lost Mark. This one, however, stands up now like it did back in 2015. Maybe better.
Although this might not have been the intention, the music showcases the difference between music that's outright auto-tuned and relies on flashy effects and sounds to distract you from the singing that may be awful underneath, and the music that's written from the heart.
The song under the Countess persona perfectly demonstrates the former. It's not a great song, absolutely, but it perfectly shows why some people seem to forget what made music good in the first place. That's where her piano ballad at the end comes in. Rara is reflecting on the mistakes she's made in the past and wants to make a fresh start beginning with this song. Rara is more than a musician; she's an average pony like anyone else. No less, no more.
Oh, and did I mention how cute the flashback was, as well as hanging out with the foals?
Too bad Svengallop, one of the most hated characters of the series (and rightfully so), didn't see that. Much as my stance on Pinkie has soured a lot, even she didn't deserve to be berated by him. Thank goodness Rara saw through that (with Applejack's help) and cut herself off from him entirely.
That being said, the "be yourself" message was really good, despite that it's become a cliche in children's media by now, and the additional messages about encouragement vs. influence and the difference between a true friend and a false "friend" added to it, making it even better. The fact that it was Rara, a celebrity, learning it made it even stronger.
All in all, it ended Amy's time with the show on a bang, and is the heartwarming episode Crusaders of the Lost Mark wished it could be. But there's still one more episode out of this hit-or-miss season...
Although this might not have been the intention, the music showcases the difference between music that's outright auto-tuned and relies on flashy effects and sounds to distract you from the singing that may be awful underneath, and the music that's written from the heart.
The song under the Countess persona perfectly demonstrates the former. It's not a great song, absolutely, but it perfectly shows why some people seem to forget what made music good in the first place. That's where her piano ballad at the end comes in. Rara is reflecting on the mistakes she's made in the past and wants to make a fresh start beginning with this song. Rara is more than a musician; she's an average pony like anyone else. No less, no more.
Oh, and did I mention how cute the flashback was, as well as hanging out with the foals?
Too bad Svengallop, one of the most hated characters of the series (and rightfully so), didn't see that. Much as my stance on Pinkie has soured a lot, even she didn't deserve to be berated by him. Thank goodness Rara saw through that (with Applejack's help) and cut herself off from him entirely.
That being said, the "be yourself" message was really good, despite that it's become a cliche in children's media by now, and the additional messages about encouragement vs. influence and the difference between a true friend and a false "friend" added to it, making it even better. The fact that it was Rara, a celebrity, learning it made it even stronger.
All in all, it ended Amy's time with the show on a bang, and is the heartwarming episode Crusaders of the Lost Mark wished it could be. But there's still one more episode out of this hit-or-miss season...
Rating: Excellent (10/10)
The Cutie Re-Mark
Written by Josh Haber
Out of all the episodes in season five, this was probably the most frustrating for me to review. When I first reviewed it in 2015, I thought it was okay, but then I thought it was bad and when I rewrote the original review, I said it was terrible. It mostly came down to Starlight Glimmer and how her arc was the handled, but the more I thought about it, the less it became the main problem I had with The Cutie Re-Mark.
I'll get this out of the way; yes, Starlight's backstory was poorly handled, but not because of how it tied into her motivations. It's because Sunburst was an unnecessary addition. Future episodes featuring him prove just how useless he is, not to mention Starlight barely mentions him whenever she's on screen. Hell, it got to the point he didn't even appear during Sombra's second invasion of the Crystal Empire in The Beginning of the End.
There's a very simple way to fix up Starlight's backstory; instead of having Sunburst be there as her only friend, you could have Starlight explain that when she was a teenager, she didn't get her cutie mark and was bullied for it. By the time she finally got her cutie mark, Starlight resented the fact that she got it so late and would hold onto that grudge for years to come. In a sense, it's like what might've happened had Apple Bloom never met with Sweetie Belle and Scootaloo and connected with them and formed the Cutie Mark Crusaders.
And then Twilight tells Starlight that holding onto that grudge wasn't healthy and she shouldn't have let bullying get to her. Just because a few select ponies tormented you, that doesn't mean you should burn the world because of them. It's that simple a fix. But to be honest, I feel people only bring it up because of their hatred for Starlight, which is ironic when you consider that Diamond Tiara's in Crusaders of the Lost Mark was sloppily handled, even more so than Starlight's, and yet the frilly pink brat gets sympathy.
Now that I've gotten that out of the way, I can talk about why the episode is actually bad. Let's start with the time travel gimmick for the finale; it's extremely confusing and it's not properly explained how it works.
For one thing, Twilight and Spike consistently end up back in the same moment with Starlight before the latter stops little Rainbow Dash from performing the Sonic Rainboom. We've seen Twilight and Spike go back multiple times over, and never once do they encounter themselves.
I've seen the Futurama movie Bender's Big Score where Professor Farnsworth explains that time paradox duplicates are doomed to die for good. For example, earlier in the movie, Hermes is decapitated by accident and Bender goes back in time to retrieve and earlier version of his body, only to lose it again during the wedding. Later on, we see Lars calling of his wedding with Leela and it turns out he's a duplicate of Fry having sent himself to the past. Trust me; you'd have to watch it to know what I mean.
Another direction they could've taken is from Stephen King's 11/22/63. In the novel, there's a 1950s-themed diner with a time portal and every journey through said portal takes the traveler to the exact same time - September 9, 1958, two minutes before noon. Past events can be changed, but subsequent use of the portal will "reset" the timeline and render all changes made on the previous journey null and void.
Had The Cutie Re-Mark gone a similar direction to one or both of the above, it would've cleared up the headache of figuring out how we still ended up with one Twilight, one Spike and one Starlight. Speaking of, where is she in all of the bad timelines, and why didn't Twilight and Spike think of dragging Starlight into one of the timelines earlier as opposed to 35 minutes in? The initial shock of landing in the Sombra and Chrysalis timelines I could buy, but why not just before they landed in the Nightmare Moon timeline?
After that is brief glimpses of the Tirek, Discord and Flim Flam brothers timelines, each somehow worse than the previous. Seriously! How could Flim and Flam taking over Sweet Apple Acres (and by extension, the Equestrian industry) be worse than Discord pulling a Ponyville riddled with chaos? They're average, everyday ponies whose worst crimes have been conning ponies out of their money!
If you want to know how each timeline would've gone from bad to worse, this is how the order should've gone, with the worst that could've happened in each timeline; Flim and Flam (with Equestria being far more industrial than ever), Nightmare Moon (when it's dark 24/7), Discord (with the world in endless chaos), Chrysalis (nothing but lush vegetation ruling the land), Sombra (with Equestria at war with the Crystal Empire), Tirek (with him causing more destruction than ever), and the wasteland. Just... a wasteland.
To be fair, Nightmare Moon was more threatening than she was in the season one premiere, but I don't believe for a second that her timeline is worse than Sombra or Chrysalis. At worst, it's dark 24/7. And bringing the other timelines into consideration, how was she defeated in every one of them? In the normal timeline, she was the first foe the Mane Six defeated! In Discord's timeline, we saw her back to normal as Luna, so if the Mane Six didn't defeat her, then how did Discord defeat her and, by extension, transformed her back into Luna? And how was Discord beaten by Chrysalis, who was then beaten by Sombra, who was then beaten by Tirek? If you think the last few paragraphs are confused, they're nothing compared to the episode itself!
And if Starlight's plan was to stop the Mane Six from getting their cutie marks by stopping the Sonic Rainboom, then how did they end up with the cutie marks they had in the original timeline? In the Chrysalis timeline, they're clearly visible (even though Rainbow, Applejack and Rarity were replaced by Changelings, but that's beside the point), so surely that must mean they still got their cutie marks in the other timelines as well, which would've made Starlight's plan kind of pointless. And again, the worst her actions did was somehow cause a different villain to take over, or in one case, led to a wasteland apocalypse.
On top of all that, Spike and Twilight never seem to suffer any ill effects when travelling back and forth through time. Spike hatched when Twilight lost control of her magic as a filly during her entrance exam, and years later after learning about friendship, she became an alicorn. Surely if neither of those events happened, Spike would feel himself start to fade out of existence and Twilight feel her flight skills start to get weaker?
It could've been like the first Back to the Future movie when Marty accidentally messes up his parents' first meeting, and when he realizes that a photograph of him and his siblings is starting to fade from existence, it's a literal race against time to get his parents together and share their first kiss so he can be born. Seriously, how is it that the simple things are so complicated to understand? It could've made the stakes even higher for Twilight and Spike to stop Starlight from causing a paradox.
Long and short, the problem with The Cutie Re-Mark is not Starlight's redemption arc. That's actually really easy to fix by removing Sunburst. No, the real problem with the episode is that the time travel action is riddled with plot holes, and it would take a lot of re-writing in order to make the whole thing work.
That said, there are redeeming moments. The opening with Twilight encountering Starlight in the crowd during a speech was a nice segue into the main conflict, Twilight and Spike facing off against the antagonist without the rest of the Mane Six is a nice breath of fresh air, and the Sombra timeline does a good job in making you feel for the ponies suffering under his wrath. It really looked like a complete hell hole.
But at the end of the day, the poor decision making in how Starlight's backstory should be handled, as well as the countless plot holes in the time travel, makes it feel like a letdown. With a bit of a rewrite, this could be great. As it is, it's a big change in the show's structure in all the wrong ways.
I'll get this out of the way; yes, Starlight's backstory was poorly handled, but not because of how it tied into her motivations. It's because Sunburst was an unnecessary addition. Future episodes featuring him prove just how useless he is, not to mention Starlight barely mentions him whenever she's on screen. Hell, it got to the point he didn't even appear during Sombra's second invasion of the Crystal Empire in The Beginning of the End.
There's a very simple way to fix up Starlight's backstory; instead of having Sunburst be there as her only friend, you could have Starlight explain that when she was a teenager, she didn't get her cutie mark and was bullied for it. By the time she finally got her cutie mark, Starlight resented the fact that she got it so late and would hold onto that grudge for years to come. In a sense, it's like what might've happened had Apple Bloom never met with Sweetie Belle and Scootaloo and connected with them and formed the Cutie Mark Crusaders.
And then Twilight tells Starlight that holding onto that grudge wasn't healthy and she shouldn't have let bullying get to her. Just because a few select ponies tormented you, that doesn't mean you should burn the world because of them. It's that simple a fix. But to be honest, I feel people only bring it up because of their hatred for Starlight, which is ironic when you consider that Diamond Tiara's in Crusaders of the Lost Mark was sloppily handled, even more so than Starlight's, and yet the frilly pink brat gets sympathy.
Now that I've gotten that out of the way, I can talk about why the episode is actually bad. Let's start with the time travel gimmick for the finale; it's extremely confusing and it's not properly explained how it works.
For one thing, Twilight and Spike consistently end up back in the same moment with Starlight before the latter stops little Rainbow Dash from performing the Sonic Rainboom. We've seen Twilight and Spike go back multiple times over, and never once do they encounter themselves.
I've seen the Futurama movie Bender's Big Score where Professor Farnsworth explains that time paradox duplicates are doomed to die for good. For example, earlier in the movie, Hermes is decapitated by accident and Bender goes back in time to retrieve and earlier version of his body, only to lose it again during the wedding. Later on, we see Lars calling of his wedding with Leela and it turns out he's a duplicate of Fry having sent himself to the past. Trust me; you'd have to watch it to know what I mean.
Another direction they could've taken is from Stephen King's 11/22/63. In the novel, there's a 1950s-themed diner with a time portal and every journey through said portal takes the traveler to the exact same time - September 9, 1958, two minutes before noon. Past events can be changed, but subsequent use of the portal will "reset" the timeline and render all changes made on the previous journey null and void.
Had The Cutie Re-Mark gone a similar direction to one or both of the above, it would've cleared up the headache of figuring out how we still ended up with one Twilight, one Spike and one Starlight. Speaking of, where is she in all of the bad timelines, and why didn't Twilight and Spike think of dragging Starlight into one of the timelines earlier as opposed to 35 minutes in? The initial shock of landing in the Sombra and Chrysalis timelines I could buy, but why not just before they landed in the Nightmare Moon timeline?
After that is brief glimpses of the Tirek, Discord and Flim Flam brothers timelines, each somehow worse than the previous. Seriously! How could Flim and Flam taking over Sweet Apple Acres (and by extension, the Equestrian industry) be worse than Discord pulling a Ponyville riddled with chaos? They're average, everyday ponies whose worst crimes have been conning ponies out of their money!
If you want to know how each timeline would've gone from bad to worse, this is how the order should've gone, with the worst that could've happened in each timeline; Flim and Flam (with Equestria being far more industrial than ever), Nightmare Moon (when it's dark 24/7), Discord (with the world in endless chaos), Chrysalis (nothing but lush vegetation ruling the land), Sombra (with Equestria at war with the Crystal Empire), Tirek (with him causing more destruction than ever), and the wasteland. Just... a wasteland.
To be fair, Nightmare Moon was more threatening than she was in the season one premiere, but I don't believe for a second that her timeline is worse than Sombra or Chrysalis. At worst, it's dark 24/7. And bringing the other timelines into consideration, how was she defeated in every one of them? In the normal timeline, she was the first foe the Mane Six defeated! In Discord's timeline, we saw her back to normal as Luna, so if the Mane Six didn't defeat her, then how did Discord defeat her and, by extension, transformed her back into Luna? And how was Discord beaten by Chrysalis, who was then beaten by Sombra, who was then beaten by Tirek? If you think the last few paragraphs are confused, they're nothing compared to the episode itself!
And if Starlight's plan was to stop the Mane Six from getting their cutie marks by stopping the Sonic Rainboom, then how did they end up with the cutie marks they had in the original timeline? In the Chrysalis timeline, they're clearly visible (even though Rainbow, Applejack and Rarity were replaced by Changelings, but that's beside the point), so surely that must mean they still got their cutie marks in the other timelines as well, which would've made Starlight's plan kind of pointless. And again, the worst her actions did was somehow cause a different villain to take over, or in one case, led to a wasteland apocalypse.
On top of all that, Spike and Twilight never seem to suffer any ill effects when travelling back and forth through time. Spike hatched when Twilight lost control of her magic as a filly during her entrance exam, and years later after learning about friendship, she became an alicorn. Surely if neither of those events happened, Spike would feel himself start to fade out of existence and Twilight feel her flight skills start to get weaker?
It could've been like the first Back to the Future movie when Marty accidentally messes up his parents' first meeting, and when he realizes that a photograph of him and his siblings is starting to fade from existence, it's a literal race against time to get his parents together and share their first kiss so he can be born. Seriously, how is it that the simple things are so complicated to understand? It could've made the stakes even higher for Twilight and Spike to stop Starlight from causing a paradox.
Long and short, the problem with The Cutie Re-Mark is not Starlight's redemption arc. That's actually really easy to fix by removing Sunburst. No, the real problem with the episode is that the time travel action is riddled with plot holes, and it would take a lot of re-writing in order to make the whole thing work.
That said, there are redeeming moments. The opening with Twilight encountering Starlight in the crowd during a speech was a nice segue into the main conflict, Twilight and Spike facing off against the antagonist without the rest of the Mane Six is a nice breath of fresh air, and the Sombra timeline does a good job in making you feel for the ponies suffering under his wrath. It really looked like a complete hell hole.
But at the end of the day, the poor decision making in how Starlight's backstory should be handled, as well as the countless plot holes in the time travel, makes it feel like a letdown. With a bit of a rewrite, this could be great. As it is, it's a big change in the show's structure in all the wrong ways.
Rating: Bad (2/10)
Final Season Ranking: Okay (5/10)
Final Season Ranking: Okay (5/10)
You know, this season had three reforms, which was too much.
ReplyDeletePerhaps they could have held Gilda's redemption back for the first season. Yeah, would be too early, but maybe if it was held back rather than air later, then Season 5 wouldn't get the schtick for reforming three characters.
Diamond's reform I will admit is the worst from this season.
How I would have done Cutie Re-Mark looking back on it was have Moondancer show up, explain what happened in Amending Fences, and have HER be the seventh main member instead of Starlight, who would be punished for what she did, or something like that, it would have shown character growth for her and help build Twilight's character more, but nope, we got the overrated Scrappy instead. -___-
ReplyDeleteBut yeah, this season IMO was when MLP: FiM started going downhill, but it was season 6 when it really got bad, and Cutie Re-Mark was where it tripped precipitously down a steep and rocky cliff and never recovered.